Some discussions never die. They just fade out a bit until a breeze hits their cooling embers...
-Editor
Last week Fred Schwan wrote:
Anyway, to me the humor to me was the incorrect American use not only
in a discussion of punctuation use, but also in a phrase with the word
Oxford!
Martin Purdy writes:
I should probably point out to Fred that I'm not American, so the punctuation for me goes outside the quote mark unless the entire sentence is a quotation (and one or two other minor exceptions that I won't go into here). Same as with punctuation and brackets, on reflection.
Mark Borckardt writes:
I believe that Fred Schwan’s Oxford comma sentence should have been written “’Oxford comma’,”
Philip Mernick of London writes:
Having been on holiday for a while I have picked up this subject a bit late.
Just in case you are still not totally fed up with the subject, here is the opinion of Elina Screen, deputy editor of The British Numismatic Journal.
Elina Screen writes:
This is one where I don't think there's a
single "right" answer. The inclusion of the final comma in a list before
the "and" is sometimes also called the "Oxford comma". The BNJ follows
the Modern Humanities Research Association guidelines, sometimes
slightly tweaked. This does advise including the last comma (styleguide
pp. 33-4, which can be downloaded free here:
www.mhra.org.uk/Publications/Books/StyleGuide/download.shtml
).
But as the guide points out, the golden rules are internal consistency
and clarity to the reader. So, providing the meaning was clear and the
author had either consistently included or excluded the comma,
personally I'd not change it. I think this usage is more about personal
preference rather than having much grammatical significance.
Bob Evans writes:
I place myself firmly in the camp using the Oxford comma, when it is proper.
Kudos to you for use of 1930s! 1930's is only correct when referring to something pertaining to the year 1930, such as 1930's best movies.
My personal, understandable pet peeve over the use of the apostrophe appears to be a losing battle in recent decades, but it is one I will fight to my demise. This is the dropping of a second "s" when using the possessive form of a name ending in "s," such as Evans. This is Evans's opinion. If it were Evans' opinion I would wonder, "Just who are these Evans?"
Well, thanks on 1930s, but we're in different camps on Evans's - I would drop that last 's' too. Since others have invoked the Chicago Manual of Style, I looked up what they had to say.
-Editor
On 1930s:
Q. I have suddenly become an editor and am having trouble on a daily basis with the numeric use of decades. First, is “the 90s” or “the ’90s” correct? We often see the apostrophe omitted these days. Next, if a sentence contains the phrase, “Perhaps the 70s best director . . .” (meaning, the best director of that decade), “70s” is both plural and possessive. Should it be “70’s”? “70s’”? Other than reconstructing the sentence, what’s an editor to do?
A. Strictly speaking, ’90s, with the apostrophe, is correct.
The ’70s’ finest director was Martin Scorsese, particularly for his work on Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore and Taxi Driver.
Note the apostrophes, both of them. You are always free to write “seventies’ finest.” Or, “The finest director of the ’70s was assuredly Francis Ford Coppola, for his work on the first two Godfather films and Apocalypse Now.”
On Evans's:
Q. When indicating possession of a word that ends in s, is it correct to repeat the s after using an apostrophe? For example, which is correct: “Dickens’ novel” or “Dickens’s novel”?
A. Either is correct, though we prefer the latter. Please consult 7.15–18 for a full discussion of the rules for forming the possessive of proper nouns. For a discussion of the alternative practice of simply adding an apostrophe to form the possessive of proper nouns ending in s, see paragraph 7.21.
To read the complete article, see:
Possessives and Attributives
(www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/PossessivesandAttributives.html)
I asked numismatic author Dave Bowers, who writes:
Whitman Publishing uses the Chicago Manual.
What I normally do is add an extra 's' if the word is short, not if it is long:
-
Jones’s house is painted purple
-
Aristotle Onassis’ yacht is for sale
So while we're all in agreement on the 1930s, there is some leeway in the rule on Evans's. The Manual leans toward Bob's interpretation, but those of us who drop the 's' aren't entirely out of line either. But I'll defer to Bob's preference for his name, as in, "Here's Bob Evans's review of Dave Bowers' new book."
Speaking of Dave's new book, I understand The Whitman Guide Book of Civil War Tokens has been a best seller and will be sold out within a month or two. A new edition is planned.
-Editor
Dave forwarded our exchange to editor Amanda deWees at Whitman, who adds:
Current usage (including that recommended by the Chicago Manual, but not exclusive to it) is to add the ‘s’ to form the possessive of singular names ending in ‘s’ (e.g., Maria Callas’s gown), with possible exceptions for (a) names ending in an “eez” sound, like Aristophanes (e.g., Aristophanes’ tuba) and (b) biblical names like Jesus and Moses (e.g., Moses’ cardigan), just because tradition for these has always been to use just the apostrophe.
What really baffles and vexes me these days is to see people use the apostrophe to make plurals and the plural form instead of the possessive. I do not get this at all.
Steve Woodland writes:
To read the earlier E-Sylum article, see:
STILL MORE ON THE SERIAL COMMA
(www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v17n01a14.html)
Wayne Homren, Editor
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