KELLEN HOARD INTERVIEW, PART FOUR

GREG BENNICK: That's great. So, with that in mind, let's bring it back to coins. Not because I couldn't talk to you about the rest of this for the next three hours, but I'm convinced that at least one or two people want to hear about the CCAC. So maybe tell us what that is and go into as much detail as you like. Not one thing you've said so far has been not interesting. All of its fascinating and I love it. So yes, the CCAC. Tell us about it and your involvement with it.

KELLEN HOARD: Sure. So, I've been a member for the last year and a half-ish. My origin story for ending up on the CCAC: of course I had been somewhat familiar with it. You know, it has an impact on the American hobby especially, in many different ways. So, I've been familiar with it, but didn't know much about it. But I saw they were accepting applications in a couple of years ago for members of the general public. And I was pondering whether or not I should apply. And I asked a former member, who shall remain nameless, and he said, "Yeah, you should absolutely apply. But just so you know, you probably won't get it, you know, especially on your first time."

Those words are deeply motivating to me. I love hearing things like that. So, I said, okay, I have to apply now. I have to get it the first time. So, I applied, went through the interview process and whatever else, had a great time, and ended up on the committee. I have had the chance to work on some really neat pieces. It's a cool committee for the members especially, for a couple of reasons.

One, you get to work really hands-on with some of the Mint's really talented staff, artists, et cetera. And two, you get to have a hand in designing the coins, or at least recommending designs for the coins. Of course, it's the Treasury Secretary's final call, but you get a chance to have a role in that. Three, you get a chance to learn about things you wouldn't learn about otherwise, in really neat and inspiring ways. You're learning about segments of history that Congress or whoever has decided to feature on coins and medals, that you may not have heard about otherwise. And what's remarkable is that for pretty much most programs, where there's a person or idea featured on the coin, they will have a liaison who comes and talks to the committee, either in person or on Zoom.

It might be someone's family member, the person you're featuring, a member of their family. When we did the Harriet Tubman coins, it was members of the Harriet Tubman House and Underground Railroad Foundation. I know before my time, they had, some members of Jackie Robinson's family. We just recently did a Congressional Gold Medal for the Iran hostages, and we had some of the former hostages come and speak with us. You get really interesting insight into the lives of these people directly from the people who knew them, or at least had known so much about them. So I've really enjoyed that as well.

We've had a chance to work on some really neat designs, including now leading up to the semi-quincentennial, the country's 250th anniversary. They're about to do a pretty serious overhaul for one year of the designs. So there's been a lot of conversation about what themes should be represented and what designs best capture those themes. I'll tell you; the community does not always agree. In fact, most of the time, we don't. But to me, that's the fun of the democratic process - figuring out what you can get, because people come from different backgrounds. There's historians, there's artists, there's a numismatist. There's a good group of people there.

It's always worth applying. I think they have a new application actually open now for a member of the general public. Do it. Especially if you feel you have something to add to the committee because that's what they're looking for. I'll tell you the selection people, they're looking for you to add a perspective. At least this is my take on it. I guess I'm not part of the committee, so don't quote me on this, but they're looking for a perspective that's not represented there. They're looking for a new dynamic voice to add to the conversation, in agreement or disagreement, with a different take.

So, if you feel like you have a different take, think about what that take is and pitch it to them. It's worth applying. You don't get paid any money, but they pay for your airfare and lodging when you're in DC. I'm in school in DC. So, they save a lot of money on me. I think that's why they chose me; because they don't have to pay for my airfare. I think that was, they won't tell me that, but I'm half-sure.

GREG BENNICK: I have a feeling that merit had something to do with it. I think that merit, knowledge, and ability might've had maybe 1%. I'm not on the selection committee, but I'm convinced!

KELLEN HOARD: You might be able to get the honest truth out of them. For the last couple of years, we've also gone to the ANA show. They pay for that, which is really kind. Before my time, but somewhat regularly, they'd take us out to the mints. A month before I joined, they went up to the Philly mint, and got down on the floor. It's a great way to get involved in the process at a grassroots level and understand what are the processes are that lead to the coins we create and how do we prioritize the themes and designs that we want to see on coins that capture the kind of the breadth of the American experience in the way that US coin designs historically have not.

GREG BENNICK: So, with that in mind, what do you think the priorities of the group are? Is it selecting the person to be honored or is it selecting the historical event that needs to be recognized? Do you see what I'm getting at?

KELLEN HOARD: So, for the most part, the CCAC does not select that. Congress does. The CCAC can make recommendations to Congress about, what they would like to see, person or theme or otherwise. But for almost every coin and medal design, it's Congress that says, "We're going to do a commemorative coin of X," or, "We're going to overhaul circulating coins for these years." And then it goes through the mint process. The mint artists come up with different options and then the CCAC and the commission of fine arts and other stakeholders will provide their recommendations. It is the Treasury Secretary who makes the final call.

I compiled a spreadsheet of - since 2016 - the CFA's recommendations, the CCAC's, and the final decision. CCAC's get chosen pretty much every time, but not always. I think there's some respect between the Treasury and the CCAC or at least agreement with it. What happens is they're really looking through designs, the CCAC. They are looking through design portfolios. Maybe there's anywhere from one to 60 different designs. That's the wideness of the scale. More often it is five to ten different design options. Then they are choosing accordingly based on artistic merit, capturing the theme accurately, and there's any number of different, approaches that individual members can take on why they like something or not. They often take into account the liaison's preferences and all these kinds of different things as well. The one that Congress doesn't have as much of a hand in, is with the American Liberty gold coin and silver medal series. Because the US mint is able to strike gold coins and silver medals without explicit congressional authority. So that was a program started several years ago to capture modern representations of Liberty and artists kind of had a free hand. Not just the kind of classically trained US mint artists, but also members of their artistic infusion program - so they reached out to tattoo artists, comic book artists, lowbrow, you know, surrealist pop art, like everything that they could. The chief engraver, reached out to everybody and the artistic team worked extensively to get a wide diversity of designs. There were dozens in this last year that we were looking at.

We could have taken any kind of approach: maybe go the neoclassical approach or maybe the more street art aesthetic. We did a little mix of both. So, we'll see what the treasury sector ends up choosing, but that's where we have so much flexibility in the themes that we choose to feature, because it's just a modern interpretation of Liberty that we are seeking to represent.

GREG BENNICK: How long has the CAC? the CCAC been around? Since early, like since mid-aught. So, it was like 2005 or 2006, somewhere around there, there was kind of a precursor-ish, but not with the same responsibilities. CCAC is congressionally chartered to basically, to basically do this.

GREG BENNICK: And how many members are there? Is that secret?

KELLEN HOARD: No, there's a website. It is an old website. It's a website where I've had people tell me, "I visited the website and I thought it was like a scam pirating website, so I wasn't comfortable putting my information in." I've, asked them to update it, but there's eleven members. There are representatives of the general public, historians, artists, numismatists. There are people appointed by congressional leadership. It's like they get like a congressional appointee, a couple of congressional appointees. So it really is kind of a diversity experience and we just recently got it back up to full capacity. We were down a few for a while.

GREG BENNICK: Amazing. Okay. So, I think we've covered the CCAC pretty well. Is there anything that I missed or anything that we missed that we didn't cover that people don't realize goes into the process of their coins being made? What's the most common thing that people will say? "Oh, I didn't realize that!," and so on.

KELLEN HOARD: It's not our call. The Treasury Secretary makes the final call. We make recommendations. The other thing I'd say is a lot of numismatists are collectors of U.S. federal coins, and they like the very classical style. They collect Seated Liberty coins. They want modern coins to be similar to those. And so that's been the active debate and discussion among the CCAC for a long time is that as we're pushing for progress on coins, is there a limit to the artistic style or artistic approach you want to take? Do we want to go backwards and emulate that? Or do we want to go forward? What do we want to do? The public has a lot of opinions they share with us about whether we go backwards or forward. But for the most part, I think we're treading the fine line pretty well so far. I'll be able to see what happens. It's a four-year term, so I'll be there for a little while. And then once I leave, we'll see what happens.

GREG BENNICK: What are your favorite designs that you've had a hand in recommending? Are there any designs that have come to fruition and exist now as coins that you've loved working on?

KELLEN HOARD: There are. It'd be helpful to show them visually. I don't know if that's possible in this format.

GREG BENNICK: You can. In fact, you could describe them. And what I'll do is edit them in. I'm happy to do that.

KELLEN HOARD: Perfect. And actually, here's what I'll do for you. This won't be helpful. But I have a couple on my phone that stood out to me. I will see if it shows up. I have these photos in my camera roll. So, one of the ones I liked. Yeah, it's not going to show up. But one of the ones I liked was the reverse of the Harriet Tubman silver dollar. Really dynamic design. Look at it there. Really kind of exciting. To me, that is what coins should be for. So, take a look at that one.

The reverse of the Dr. Vera Rubin American Women's quarter, which is coming out next year. Dynamic. That's what a coin should be, that's how we should be featuring people on coins, not just kind of still bust, but really dynamic designs. See that there.

The Althea Gibson American Women's quarter is coming out next year as well. It shows motion in a coin really well. It's just action. So, you'll hopefully enjoy that. So, I recommended the obverse for the American Liberty silver medal for next year. That's one of the street art ones, It's controversial. I showed to people. I get 50 of people who love it, 50% hate it. So let me know what you think of that one.

And then the Stacey Park Milbern American Women's quarter happening next year. First woman, I believe, in a wheelchair on a coin. Dynamic design there.

The Florida Innovation dollar coming out next year. Everyone loves rockets on coins, so that was kind of fun. And then the other one that I was really excited about was the reverse of the gold American Liberty coin, which is coming out next year. It's an eagle - we see a lot of eagle standing - flying majestically. This one's doing something different. So, again, my roommate at college saw it over my shoulder and said, "That's the most badass coin design I've ever seen in my life." So, I'll be curious to see your take on it as well.

About the Interviewer
Greg Bennick (www.gregbennick.com) is a keynote speaker and long time coin collector with a focus on major mint error coins. Have ideas for other interviewees? Contact him anytime on the web or via instagram @minterrors.

To watch the complete video, see:
Kellen Hoard Interviewed for the NNP by Greg Bennick (https://youtu.be/tBb-Bt4NR8k)

To read the complete transcript, see:
Kellen Hoard Interviewed for the NNP by Greg Bennick (Transcript) (https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/641580)

To read the earlier E-Sylum article, see:
KELLEN HOARD INTERVIEW, PART ONE (https://www.coinbooks.org/v27/esylum_v27n41a24.html)
KELLEN HOARD INTERVIEW, PART TWO (https://www.coinbooks.org/v27/esylum_v27n40a13.html)
KELLEN HOARD INTERVIEW, PART THREE (https://www.coinbooks.org/v27/esylum_v27n43a21.html)

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